third status bars

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  Third status bars
« on: October 21, 2009, 01:36:00 AM » by Dsvaun
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 01:38:45 AM by Dsvaun »
Hello everybody! Ready for a new topic? No? Too bad, I making a new one.

I'm playing Vagrant story and grinding the dummies for battle abilities when I notice I've managed to get my risk bar up to 100 for the sixth time. Nothing unusual, but it made me think of other games that add some other stat in addition to Hp and Mp(ie. Limit break, stamina, etc). The question I ask is what do you guys think are good examples, bad examples and why?

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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2009, 02:30:53 AM » by JayBee That's how I roll.
Bad example: Limit break.
It's inane and stupid. The FF6 version was infinitely superior.


Good example: Final Fantasy 1. You have 8 different sets of magic pools,each corresponding to a different tier of spells. Keeps mages from being absurdly overpowered, since they(and by they I mean YOU)  have to think before slinging spells.
Especially combined with the lack of a way to restore MP in a dungeon.

APPRIVOISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2009, 04:45:26 AM » by Word on the Wind Fanservice with a vengence!
Bad example: Limit break.
It's inane and stupid. The FF6 version was infinitely superior.


Good example: Final Fantasy 1. You have 8 different sets of magic pools,each corresponding to a different tier of spells. Keeps mages from being absurdly overpowered, since they(and by they I mean YOU)  have to think before slinging spells.
Especially combined with the lack of a way to restore MP in a dungeon.

May as well just say Dungeons and Dragons, really. But given how spells are broken as hell when power-gamed, that's not a good example either.

Also, bashin' on a trainin' dummy continually in VS ain't a good idea. Makes a weapon EXTREMELY biased against the type the dummy reprisents, unless ye're doin' it with a weapon ye intend to just throw away.

I miss my signature.
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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2009, 10:01:51 AM » by Gideon Zhi Devil Summoner
Also, bashin' on a trainin' dummy continually in VS ain't a good idea. Makes a weapon EXTREMELY biased against the type the dummy reprisents, unless ye're doin' it with a weapon ye intend to just throw away.

I thought the idea was to carry around six different weapons, each one biased against one of the six kinds of enemies?

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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2009, 12:37:16 PM » by Dsvaun
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 12:38:48 PM by Dsvaun »
Also, bashin' on a trainin' dummy continually in VS ain't a good idea. Makes a weapon EXTREMELY biased against the type the dummy reprisents, unless ye're doin' it with a weapon ye intend to just throw away.
I'm using an extra weapon, besides I'm not going to use the same weapon on the human dummy and battle when most of the area is made up of beasts, undead, and phantoms.
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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2009, 09:00:28 PM » by JayBee That's how I roll.
Bad example: Limit break.
It's inane and stupid. The FF6 version was infinitely superior.


Good example: Final Fantasy 1. You have 8 different sets of magic pools,each corresponding to a different tier of spells. Keeps mages from being absurdly overpowered, since they(and by they I mean YOU)  have to think before slinging spells.
Especially combined with the lack of a way to restore MP in a dungeon.

May as well just say Dungeons and Dragons, really. But given how spells are broken as hell when power-gamed, that's not a good example either.
Well, yeah. It's no secret most digital RPGs are, at their roots, based on D&D.
But FF doesn't have feats and multiclassing and the ability to argue with the DM, so you're limited in how much damage you can do!
...
On the other hand, the DM's rulebook is totally hosed. There's effects and spells that don't work at all, and a few that have the opposite of the intended effect, so arguing with the DM is a highly desirable feature.
When a spell says it makes the enemy party easier to hit, and all enemies become almost-unhittable afterwards, it's nice to have someone on-hand to slap.

APPRIVOISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2009, 09:01:13 PM » by Captain Vittles ALL ABOARD THE PARTY VAN!
Also, bashin' on a trainin' dummy continually in VS ain't a good idea. Makes a weapon EXTREMELY biased against the type the dummy reprisents, unless ye're doin' it with a weapon ye intend to just throw away.

Well, you need to wail on dummies in order to forge a 'master' weapon.  You need to build a set of proper-material blades up to 100 on different types of affinities, then combine them in the right way to make sure the new blade keeps the 100 in the desired stats.  By careful combining, you eventually make a weapon that's got 100 for all monster types and all elements.
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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2009, 09:06:51 PM » by Captain Vittles ALL ABOARD THE PARTY VAN!
I'm playing Vagrant story and grinding the dummies for battle abilities when I notice I've managed to get my risk bar up to 100 for the sixth time. Nothing unusual, but it made me think of other games that add some other stat in addition to Hp and Mp(ie. Limit break, stamina, etc). The question I ask is what do you guys think are good examples, bad examples and why?

Sorry for the double post.

The later games in the SaGa series usually have four main 'bars' to track.  HP for short-term health, LP for long-term health, WP/TP for weapon abilities and MP/SP/JP for magic abilities.

I think it works nicely in two ways.  The HP/LP split allows you to grow HP for better survivability in fights, but LP - which is usually fixed and cannot grow - forces you to consider a character's long term stamina when developing a party.  The WP/SP split allows you to better customize your fighters and your mages, or balance a fighter-mage if that's what floats your boat.
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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 09:50:31 AM » by Mannypooh
the bad thing about saga games is that you have to pray to get techs/magic, since you dont get them by leveling up, just by chance depending on what weapon you use and maybe your stats as well.
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  Re: Third status bars
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2009, 12:13:57 PM » by Dsvaun
the bad thing about saga games is that you have to pray to get techs/magic, since you dont get them by leveling up, just by chance depending on what weapon you use and maybe your stats as well.

Yeah, any game mechanic that relies purely on chance is going to be nothing but frustrating. I refuse to play Star Ocean 3 because I know after all the grinding and inventing the part that will keep me trapped are the damn bunny races(seriously, If a a game accuses you of cheating for winning a minigame something is very wrong)
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