spoiler discussion for metal max returns

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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 09:51:22 AM » by Novacat
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 11:19:34 AM by Novacat »
Obliterator.. Seems to be the old Shining force "curse" thing...

Every once in a while the tank gives a "completely uncontrollable" message, losing its action. I've yet to find the reward but there's probably something.

Also, I think you're confusing ambush and support.


Edit: I gotta re-assess my weapon picks... the Burst cannon, from the shop hidden near the starting town, fires twice. No heavier than the Gaia, and a fair bit of power...

For tanks I use the Mosquito, LAV and Muu: the first I like due to how bloody light the chassis is. Weight's a real issue with heavier chassis that also have more slots... and if you're not using the slots to the fullest, having more doesn't actually mean jack. You don't have much room left for plating if you deck out your muu in twin SE's and twin aux (giving it the ghost cannon helps though), so stick that (all) and your biggest gun on the Mosquito.
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Returns
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 10:36:16 AM » by Seeker
As far as I get it "ambush" is similar to "support" - just that ambush is for untowed vehicles 
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2007, 12:01:14 PM » by Shadow The Ace Hunter
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 12:11:20 PM by Shadow »
Weapon analysis time!

The 205mm Cannon is quite superior to the 225mm Hydra. With fully upgraded attack and ammo capacity, these are their stats:

205mm Cannon
Weight: 4.03t
Ammo: 20
Power: 936
Defense: 50

225mm Hydra
Weight: 12.00t
Ammo: 50
Power: 936
Defense: 140

The 205mm's weight is a third of the 225m's (which could be used for extra equipment or 797 armour plates) and it still presents as much power. The Hydra has over twice the ammo capacity, but I don't think that's necessary (the 205's 20 were more than enough to beat Noah, with three tanks, of course). Its defense is also higher, but I think this kind of defense is only the component's, I guess it's resistance to getting damaged in combat once the plates are gone. Again, not very relevant in my opinion.

The only situation where the 225 would surpass the 205 I can think of is if you're playing a solo game with just the Hunter. In that case you'd need that 50-round capacity. As a final note, upgrading the Hydra is waymore expensive than the 205mm.


As for the 195mm Burst (the gun that fires twice that can be bought at the trader camp near Leorad), it might beat the 205mm Cannon! With fully upgraded attack and ammo capacity, let's compare them:

205mm Cannon
Weight: 4.03t
Ammo: 20
Power: 936
Defense: 50

195mm Burst
Weight: 15.00t
Ammo: 55
Power: 816
Defense: 120

The 195 is almost four times as heavy as the 205 and is slightly weaker than it. However, the key of the 195mm Burst is that it fires twice in a row (the Burst ability). It also consumes twice as much ammo, but with a 55-round magazine, that's not much of a problem. In the end, it packs a harder punch, as two 816 hits are naturally stronger than a single 936 one. As a small bonus, the 195 is over twice as resilient to damage, compared to the 205.

In the end, the 195mm Burst's main disadvantage is its weight, but the double-816 shots might be more than enough compensation for the 11 extra tons. Another minor shortcoming is that it's somewhat more expensive to upgrade than the 205 (as it needs more upgrades to reach its full potential).
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2007, 12:17:59 PM » by Novacat
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 12:22:14 PM by Novacat »
The 205 I don't have yet actually. The one I do have is a 205 Red Peony, which is 15 tons for base power 700 (I forget how much it was upgraded, but high 800's, sold that thing asap after finding better and lighter).

 I'm about to hit the earth relief center... The 195 has plenty of space on a nearly fully tricked out mosquito with 20 tons of plating...

Where's the 205 found, actually?

edit: you can view the 195's consumption in another way also: it GETS to use its ammo twice as quickly. Same ammo use on a boss, half the rounds. Also, won't fire if target is dead, though it will retarget to others in the same group if there are any. If that second turtle had 1hp left though..
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 12:28:31 PM » by Shadow The Ace Hunter
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 12:53:30 PM by Shadow »
Oh, the 205mm Cannon can be bought at Hell's Gate West. I had all my tanks fitted with maxed 205's and Buster Flutes (two on the WhiteMuu) when I took Noah on. I didn't bother with SEs, as their ammo is expensive and they couldn't reach the 205 mm's 936 points of destructive power anyway (didn't bother upgrading, though). =P
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2007, 12:37:08 PM » by Liana Lens Comrade
Obliterator.. Seems to be the old Shining force "curse" thing...

Every once in a while the tank gives a "completely uncontrollable" message, losing its action. I've yet to find the reward but there's probably something.

The reward is its stats alone (the 15 accuracy and 1 evasion, I think it is). If you turn on the Obliteration System, the tank does the uncontrollable thing (I think sometimes it does nothing, and sometimes it might hit your party or the enemy at random) and nothing else. The gimmick is that the Obliteration System can not be turned off; you have to change C-Units entirely if you want to be rid of it.

it is... after all... the Noah Unit. ;)

‥‥おしても いいんだぜ! なつかしい ドラムかんをよ!
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2007, 12:52:44 PM » by Shadow The Ace Hunter
Oooh! Where can I find that C-Unit?

Do I have to return to the Global Relief Center and Noah's chamber after beating him? =)
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2007, 01:59:50 PM » by Liana Lens Comrade
There's two: one if you beat the Rommel Ghost, and one hidden in the desert, at the "eye" of the eagle rock formation.

‥‥おしても いいんだぜ! なつかしい ドラムかんをよ!
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2007, 10:15:13 PM » by jtrainor
Rommel's Ghost won't always drop it. Same with the other wanted monsters, they don't always drop their stuff either (I just got a Superhuman Gloves from Salmonella HQ)
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2007, 11:54:42 PM » by Zadey
so...where do you get this ghost cannon? i have the Muu, before i even met the Mechanic lol

kinda interested now though...i visited the waterfall base, before going to audrey...so, wolf is dead atm XD
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Returns
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2007, 09:13:26 AM » by Shadow The Ace Hunter
...How did you do that? o_O

The shortest route has a forest in the middle, between Leorad and Canabelle (the one that later burns up). Besides, there's no way you can survive the monsters in the area (let alone the Ghost Base's) with low levels (such as the normal ones you have before reaching Audrey).
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2007, 10:01:09 AM » by Liana Lens Comrade
*blink*

Boy, there's non-linear, and then there's non-linear ;)

‥‥おしても いいんだぜ! なつかしい ドラムかんをよ!
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2007, 10:33:35 AM » by Shadow The Ace Hunter
I know it's non-linear, but there's a whole forest blocking your path to Canabelle and the Ghost Base, where the WhiteMuu is! Well, unless said forest is made of 'thin trees', the ones you can walk through on foot.

If so, you'd have to run through the world map and base fleeing from any monsters you come across, and abusing savestates when they manage to attack before you escape (as you'd get killed with a single hit).

But still you wouldn't be able to get the WhiteMuu, as you need the ID card found in the Peerless Hospital, and you can't reach said place without the tank ferry and blowing up the Corona building (I think).

Sorry, can someone please clarify? @_@
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Retur
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2007, 02:50:23 PM » by Liana Lens Comrade
I was assuming he just played a solo game, and skipped picking up the mechanic and the soldier. As long as you're sure not to walk into Uliu's place with your tank, or talk to the soldier, it can be done...

... of course, if it's something else, do let me know too ;) Those trees are definitely not thin...

‥‥おしても いいんだぜ! なつかしい ドラムかんをよ!
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  Re: SPOILER DISCUSSION for Metal Max Returns
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2007, 02:52:55 PM » by Shadow The Ace Hunter
But he did all of that before reaching Audrey. o_O
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